An impressive detailed look by Undicisettembre at the “Peer Reviewed” paper presented by Steven Jones and Kevin Ryan, Danish chemistry professor Niels Harrit that claims to show “active thermitic material” at the site of the World Trade Center.
In short Undicisettembre found this supposed super spray on thermite has all the same chemical properties of primers and rust proofing paints used to protect the steel used at the WTC.
It becomes a matter of logic, if you believe people like Jones, Ryan and Harrit you would have to believe massive steel beams were destroyed by a Magic “paint-on” thermite coating only millimeters thick! and that somehow someone was able to gain access to the beams and columns without notice. And that no one before or since has demonstrated the viability of this theory even on a small scale.
OR
Three guys who are known for their conspiracy theorist views on 9/11, who sell books and who are paid to give talks promoting the conspiracy ideas have created a scientific sounding paper, had it published by a Pay to Publish journal, because no legitimate science journal would touch it, that PAINTS common primer coatings and rust proofing paint as super duper beam melting weapon?
Of course if you believe the 9/11 conspiracy theorist, thermite was used to melt core columns in the WTC that were much more massive than then the bodywork of an SUV. Then you have the fact thermite is ill suited for controlled demolition work, burns too slow and requires a very hot ignition source just to get started. That is why it never has been used for controlled demolitions. But because Steve Jones said there was thermite, the 9/11 truth sheeple ate it up and pucked it back out at every opportunity.
Of course when faced with this inconvenient truth that thermite is unusable for controlled demolitions, truthers started to invent imaginary super secret “Nano” thermite. You can get these idiots to believe anything is possible by just using the latest buzz word. It’s not like the type of person who would buy this crap has the gray matter to understand the science of nano technology and it’s limitation. To these simpletons the word is enough, DUDE!!!!! it’s was NANO Thermite!!!! DUDE!.
You are told by the conspiracy hucksters that building seven suffered only minor damage. This news reporters experience paints a very different picture.
9/11 truthers were all atwitter when Steven Jones announced he along with Kevin Ryan, Neils Harritt and Tony Szamboti had gotten a paper accepted in a “Peer Reviewed” science Journal. A first for the conspiracy theorist promoting the idea a super duper double secret nano thermite had brought down the World Trade Center.
Unfortunately debunkers soon pointed out the science journal in question was Bentham Open Journals, a for all intents and purposes a vanity publisher. You pay, they publish. Not exactly a REAL peer reviewed publisher of hard core science information. This did little to get the tin foil hat wearing conspiracy huckster taken seriously by scientist who know what they are talking about.
The dubious quality of Bentham’s peer review process has been brought into clear focus by a graduate student at Cornell University. They got a paper accepted by Bentham that consisted of nothing but computer generated nonsense.
In this section, we discuss existing research into red-black trees, vacuum tubes, and courseware [10]. On a similar note, recent work by Takahashi suggests a methodology for providing robust modalities, but does not offer an implementation [9].
The writers of the paper even dropped a hint of the hoax by giving their institutional affiliation as the Center for Research in Applied Phrenology, or CRAP.
This is not the first time “pay-to-play” journals have been had. The Cornell students withdrew the hoax paper, Why? Because they are students, and Bentham wants $800 to publish.
The 9/11 Truth movement dies a slow but humorous death but does provide a good laugh from time to time.
Jesse Ventura On Fox And Friends still hasn’t figured out why the World Trade Center towers fell. He employes the intellectual cowards ploy of “just asking questions.” Yeah, when you have no real proof, you try and elevate questions to the level of facts.
Yeah, Jesse, we get it, you are not smart enough to understand that the towers didn’t fall at the so called “free fall” rate, hell I tend to believe the man never even heard of the concept of free fall before latching onto the conspiracy theorist hype surrounding 9/11. To this mullet head it’s a buzz word he picked up from a conspiracy site, sound good, but he doesn’t really understand the concept.
Apparently his knowledge of basic physics is even more lacking, or he would know the energy necessary to bring the towers down was always in the buildings in the form of potential gravitational energy. When a shitload of mass falls, it releases lots of pulverizing kinetic energy, no explosives needed. It’s been over 7 years and the 9/11 truth loons still have learned nothing but how to parrot long debunked conspiracy claptrap.
Only in America would we take the ramblings of a former frogman turned wrestler as something that deserves consideration or even election to public office. Maybe if Ventura has all these “Questions” he should talk to a structural engineer with the talent to build skyscrapers, these guys understand the forces involved, you will note they are not the ones asking questions.
Asking stupid questions does not make one a patriot. It only makes you look like a fool.
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OK, So having Mos Def on the same panel with Christopher Hitchens and Salman Rushdie is like sending a one legged man to an ass kicking contest. Borat has made more sense.
I love the part where he say he doesn’t know what Bin Laden says in his videos because he doesn’t speak Arabic. OK, not like there is no shortage people who can translate it for you. And the part where he makes a big point of saying he doesn’t mind holding the unpopular idea, DUH MOS! You are sitting next to Salman Rushdie and two unabashed atheist. From what I can see Mos doesn’t mind holding a stupid idea.
Sorry, But if you are the type who get pleasure out of imagining that you have figured out some grand conspiracy, you are not going to like what I have to say.
The fact is, acting alone, Lee Harvey Oswald shot President Kennedy, Governor Connally, and police officer Tippit in November of 1963, Oswald was a loser in life and did it for his own twisted politics and to boost his ego. On September 11 2001, disciples of a Islamist theocrat Osama bin-Laden crashed hijacked aircraft and themselves along with hundreds of other passengers into the World Trade Center and Pentagon. Why? Because of twisted religious fundamentalism, they believed America to be the great devil. The Jews, CIA, or George Bush did not do it. The Council of Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission are nothing more than a social clubs of otherwise powerful people. The Illuminati are nothing more than the imaginary boogie men of the rationally challenged. The Jewish conspiracy books Protocols of the Elders of Zion are fabrications concocted by bigots.
With that said small conspiracies by alienated misfits can often be quite successful at changing history. The assassination of Lincoln was a successful conspiracy of a few. The assassination of an Austrian Archduke in Serbia in 1914 started World War One. Two homeless kooks cause near panic in Washington by playing snipers. Two guys, Timothy McVay and Terry Nichols blew up theMurrah Federal Building with a crude but powerful ammonium nitrate truck bomb.
There are some very important reasons immense conspiracies do not happen, the greatest being the bigger they are the less likely they are to succeed, and more likely they are to be exposed. As Benjamin Franklin once said “Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead.” The more people who know, the more likely it is someone will blab, and people do talk, be it for money, fame or just because they found god on their death beds. Knowing this propensity for man to blather, anyone who entrust an important secret to anyone else is a fool. Best you could hope for is that the secret is kept hush-hush just long enough the plan to be achieved. People who are in the position to orchestrate any sort of covert action know this, and take it into account. KISS Keep It Simple Stupid, keep the numbers of operations small so to prevent failure in any one act from spoiling the entire enterprise.
The popular idea of a ruling inner circle of humanity who grandly orchestrates great events from behind the scenes seems to excite more interest from the general public. Movie makers play up to this accepted all the time, the hero thwarts the evil governments plan, saves the days and gets the girl. Ha, If only real life were like that. Problem is believers of insider conspiracy theories see themselves as the hero, a Quixotic syndrome, an illusory reassurance of their own virtue. Conspiracy give us hope when we feel powerless, all we have to do is kill one big dragon and all will be well with the world.
Conspiracy mavins ignore the fact that the average working Joe who supposedly implement these actions must have super human dedication to their jobs. Imaging if Jack Ruby really was induced by the mafia or the CIA to shoot Lee Harvey Oswald, rather than by his anger over JFK’s assassination. Why would Ruby be willing to spend the rest of his life in prison, and not squeal or blab about his place in the event? Hell, the mafia doesn’t command that level of silence from it’s own family members, a little heroin bust and a few years of possible jail time has sent many a mob lieutenant singing to the cops. You would have to believe such conspiratorial behavior presupposes one heck of a sense of integrity and dedication on the part of all participants. Not to mention brilliantly effective coordination among far flung conspiracy members. To accept these big conspiracy theories, one must honestly feel that there are large numbers of people willing to suffer, die, kill, lose their wealth and reputation, and yet still keep silent in order to protect the good name, wealth, and power of some greedy individuals. Sorry but people just aren’t that dedicated. I dare say most people if enticed to join in a plot to kill the president or a large number of fellow Americans would run, not walk to the authorities or the press just to save their own skin. They would know that to get involved with this crime would be far to great a risk.
The conspiratorial mind set also provides a coinvent cover for ignorant bigoted people. They make the villains of these imagined conspiracies to be the educated wealthy, the Illuminati, bankers, business people. Conspiracy thinking is greater among uneducated who may be inclined to believe it’s the elite who are keeping them down, rather then their own lack of education. And while we a demonizing lets not forget the ever popular Jews. One of the first clues that 9/11 was orchestrated by someone other than Arab terrorist is the rumor, “No Jews died on 9/11″. Other times it is pure political rhetoric, all republicans are fascist, all Democrats are pinko Commies.
With that said, powerful people, movements, and institutions can carry out manipulative deceptive acts and nefarious agendas with success. But even they know these acts can not be kept secret for long, The Gulf of Tonkin Incident is all but ignored, Iran Contra meant only a small amount of jail time at Club Fed for Oliver North and didn’t effect President Reagan at all. For the people who did these actions the benefits far outweighed the inconvenience when the plots were exposed. Far cry from events like JFK and 9/11 were the benefits are so small and the risk astronomical. We are talking treason and mass murder here, something the you won’t be able to minimize with large amounts of Spin Doctoring.
Let’s not forget it is conspiracy theorist who have carried out the worst evils. Nazi propaganda was based on the fantasy of a conspiratorial nature of Jews. Socialist paint a conspiratorial view of individual capitalism, Jonestown and Waco were driven by madmen who taught a conspiratorial view of government, Muslims see the rest of the western world as infidels out to get them.
So the next time someone tries to get you to drink the conspiracy Kool-Aid, ask yourself if YOU would get involved with the proposed conspiracy or if YOU would keep quiet about it if you knew of it. Chances are you would not, and chances are neither would anybody else. Chances are the proposed conspiracy is just pure bullshit.
Creative facial hair is a hallmark of truther douchebags?
There is a disease out there, No not bird flu, far worst, a Derangement Syndrome. Many on the left sufferer from the Bush variant, and now conservatives now seem to have caught their own variant.
The epidemic of “Bush Derangement Syndrome” BDS hit its peak about a year ago, affecting mostly 20 something slackers living in mom’s basement watching YouTube videos, and ageing drug addled hippies. The affection is characterized by a propensity to believe any nonsense idea so long as you can blame on George Bush. The disease attacked the cognitive areas of the brain preventing the normal flow of logic and important critical analysis. Suddenly you could find yourself listening to Alex Jones, wearing a black T-shirt emblazened with “911 Was An Inside Job” and babbling twaddle about “Free Fall” “Pull It” and my favorite “Super Nano Thermite”. Severe cases may even find themselves wondering aloud about Mini Nukes and Directed Energy Weapons. The fact GWB was for the most part an incompetent boob spouting his own brand of bunkum about science and religion sure didn’t help alleviate the confusion of the “non compos mentis”. I swear, I think these guy miss old George. Lacking facts and science to back up their 9/11 conspiracy theory, Bush blunders were all they had as far as a selling point. Now Bush is gone, and being a fairly bright guy the current President pays trurhers no attention.
You did have small cases of Clinton Derangement Syndrome years ago but it sat dormant for eight years before mutating into the present variant, “Obama Derangement Syndrome” ODS. Today “Birthers” are the new Truthers. Birthers claim to have questions about Obama’s citizenship, mind you they have no actual proof, but like their truther counterparts they feel questions alone add up to something real. Bet you these are the same people who had questions about Bill Clinton and Vince Foster’s death.
Like most social diseases ODS spreads through unprotected contact with unclean media whores like Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Reilly, Ann Coulter and the rest of the brothel staff at FOX news. Wow!!! I shouldn’t have done that! now I have a vision in my head of Ann Coulter in a mini skirt saying “Me Love You Long Time”. Being a consummate Camp Follower himself Alex Jones has gotten down on his knees to service his new clientele with his own “The Obama Deception” Movie. The man sure knows how to cash in, and who can blame him, just look at the money Oliver Stone’s film JFK made selling popular pablum to a credulous public. Look, if you are going to listen to FOX news or Alex Jones or any of the talk radio programs be they conservative or liberal, for gods sake, double-up on the brain condoms.
Sad part is this mental malignancy has stayed with the original BDS sufferers. So now you’ve got a bunch of moron who still go on and on about Cheney McBush, and a bunch of right wing clowns babbling on about Hussein Obama. In the future look for new and more virulent strains of ODS as the conspiracy theory business machine ramps up for the new crop of gullible rubes, this shit sells and suckers are born every minute.
One of the silliest arguments truthers make for 9/11 being this BIG conspiracy is that at no time in history has an large office building collapsed due to fire.
Of course this is mind numbingly duncical in myriad ways. For one, the idea that something could not have happened the way it did simply because it never happened before is down right childish and defies any rational logic. I guess in the truther world NOTHING can happen, everything must have a first time.
In the truther world the passenger jet that had to ditch in the Hudson river could not have happened! At no time in the past had a jet like that landed in water without breaking apart. So I guess the Hudson river emergency landing must have been an Inside Job or a holographic hoax, and all those people who saw it with their own two eyes? just government shills. The Moon landing? Yeah never happened before ergo a giant government hoax. Same with the Titanic, the break-up of the space shuttle and countless other never before events.
What is amazing is these people will repeat this ludicrous observation never once sitting down to think exactly how stupid it is. To your average brain dead conspiracy loon type this is powerful incite. To the rest of us it’s sad statement on our education system.
The 9-11 Commission Report states, on Page 305, that “At 9:58:59, the South Tower collapsed in ten seconds” Well, yes, it does. The 9-11 Commission Report was tasked with looking into events leading up to attack, responses to the attack, and possible changes in procedure and policy to deal with future terrorist activities. What it does not contain is technical information about the causes of the building collapse, that was left up to the NIST report. But because truthers are by their very nature sheep incapable of independent thought they take everything they are told as gospel. Truther like to defend the party line as it comes down from the conspiracy theorist kingpins like David Ray Griffin and Alex Jones, and they wrongly assume people who are debunking them are equally as constrained. As I debunk the bunk from the nincompoop brigade I find I almost never have to reference the 9/11 Commission Report, there is plenty of real world science and just general logic to lampoon truther loons with.
This tactic of picking a small error in a papers is very familiar to anyone who has had to deal with creationist. Anti evolution people love to point out that Darwin believed evolution was a slow and steady progression, as it turns out species tend to evolve in jumps a spirts. It doesn’t negate the fact Darwin has the basics of evolution right.
But then the 911 Commission Report was not a scientific paper and insisting that ten seconds is meant to be a scientifically definitive statement shows a complete lack of critical reasoning skills.
Technical information on the building collapse is in the NIST reports, Like this chronology of the collapse once the buildings began to fall, but the NIST site has the pertinent information.
“The seismic spikes for the collapse of the WTC Towers are the result of debris from the collapsing towers impacting the ground. The spikes began approximately 10 seconds after the times for the start of each building’s collapse and continued for approximately 15 seconds.”
So according to the seismic record, the first impacts are about ten seconds after the onset of collapse. That would be the free-falling debris. Seismic signals continued for 15 more seconds. So it took at least about 25 seconds for the buildings to totally collapse. The fact dust obscured the last few seconds of the collapse the seismic records is the best way to judge the total collapse time. When I first heard the 10 second claim I did what any skeptic would do, I watched some of the videos and “counted” and it confirmed what I suspected. it took more than twice as long for the buildings to fall than the conspiracy kook tell you.
From video evidence, significant portions of the cores of both buildings (roughly 60 stories of WTC 1 and 40 stories of WTC 2) are known to have stood 15 to 25 seconds after collapse initiation before they, too, began to collapse. Neither the duration of the seismic records nor video evidence (due to obstruction of view caused by debris clouds) are reliable indicators of the total time it took for each building to collapse completely.
In other words, the momentum (which equals mass times velocity) of the 12 to 28 stories (WTC 1 and WTC 2, respectively) falling on the supporting structure below (which was designed to support only the static weight of the floors above and not any dynamic effects due to the downward momentum) so greatly exceeded the strength capacity of the structure below that it (the structure below) was unable to stop or even to slow the falling mass. The downward momentum felt by each successive lower floor was even larger due to the increasing mass.
9-11 troofers are a lot like some Biblical fundamentalists. Anything that they want to believe is to be taken with absolute literalness, and anything that contradicts what they want to believe, they just ignore.
I was watching one of the early James Bond movies the other day. It’s amazing how many men the evil villain can get to work for him. All of them loyal to a fault, willing to surly die for whatever plan the good doctor Evil has in store. Completely trustworthy never spilling the beans even on their days off. But how did he get these guys???? Ad in the help wanted page? Maybe they are from some temp service, a henchman for a day thing.
I think the problem with truthers is a lack of intelligence and imagination, they can’t see beyond the fairy tails told to them in countless YouTube videos and conspiracy theory sites. They are told the world is full of evil doers who possess powers beyond belief, just like in the movies. They never try and imaging exactly how one would go about doing what they propose thousands of people did on and before 9/11 in real life. They just wave it off with a “DUH.. I dun know” “I’m just asking questions” They don’t even have the imagination to ask smart questions. YEAH, YEAH I know your mom told you there was no such thing as a dumb question, but she lied to you.
A smart question would be “Why go through the impossible task of trying to arrange a controlled demolition of two buildings, both three times as tall as any known previous controlled demolition?” How would you even try and go about do such a thing? Call or email controlled demolition companies and ask if they could do a implosion job on such and such a date and hope they don’t turn you over to the authorities? You would have to be certain EVERY man from the demolition company is willing to do the job and keep quite after the fact. That kind of thing only happens in those 007 movies.
If you did find such a company how much would you have to pay them? Would that not cut into the profit? or Did the controlled demolition company do it Pro Bono? Would you not maximize your profit and minimize your risk my doing something much simpler and feasible like arrange fires that would damage the building beyond repair? After all there is no reason to believe the towers would have been rebuildable even if they had not collapsed. You could arrange a kickback on the dismantling of the building and it’s reconstitution! To anyone with half a brain doing the controlled demolition thing would be down right foolish. Far too complex, far too many people involved, too much of a chance something could go wrong.
You got to love the diverse nature of the crackpots who inhabit the 911 Truth movement.
In 2004 Jerome R. Corsi’s wrote “Unfit for Command,” which inspired the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth in their attack of presidential hopeful Senator John Kerry. His new book “Obama Nation.” is a similar hit piece on Barack Obama. Corsi is by his nature racist, anti-Semitic and believe 911 Was an Inside Job.
I got a little chuckle out of a comment on this blog that the collapse of the WTC was surely a controlled demolition, The reason? The poster proposed that the reason was “the physics of the event was self-evident”. NOT because he had any real proof of a deliberate implosion, but the weakest reason of all, the persons own personal obsevation. Now when someone calls an event “self evident” you know you are dealing with someone who is too stupid or far too lazy too dig up any real facts to back up their observation. And the self evident nature of the observation had to take into consideration the knowledge of the observer. If you don’t know what you are looking at, it is far too easy to be fooled.
To make a point, in 1492, Columbus sailed the oceans blue. The far to common legend even today is that old Chris did this to prove the Earth was round. But nothing could be further from the truth. Enlightened individuals of that time already knew the Earth was round and even had some idea of its size. The Greek philosopher Aristotle argued in his writings that the Earth was spherical. Fact is Christopher Columbus proposed to reach India by sailing west from Spain. He reasoned a longer westward sea route would work. It may have proven true but Columbus used an erroneous estimate of distance based on calculations by Ptolemy. King Ferdinand hired experts and scientist of the time to examine the proposal made by Columbus, and they in fact got the much longer distance correct. but as it is Queen Isabella overruled the experts and Chris sailed away. Hey, Lets face it, He got lucky!!!, if North American was not sitting where it is now he may well have died in the middle of a colossal sea journey.
But what has this got to do with the “self evident” nature of 9/11? You see the uneducated “common man” of 1492 may well have thought Columbus would sail off the edge of the world because to them it was so “self-evident”, the Earth was flat, Hey! it looks flat, right? “Dude!!! Just look the Earth is flat as a pancake” As with everything else the more enlightened members of society knew better and I can imaging them having a hell of a time trying to explain a round Earth to a bunch of dirt farmers who’s “self evident” world didn’t reach beyond their flat farm fields. This would rear it’s head again when good old science, with the help of Copernacus proved the Earth revolved around the Sun. But to the Church and other members of the unenlightened masses it was “self evident”, the Earth was not moving and the Sun and stars were spinning around over our heads.
And now we hear the same “common man wisdom” coming from a group of people who as a group know the nothing about structural dynamics of tall buildings, little of controlled demolitions and even less of the events surrounding 9/11. To them the towers were a controlled demolition not because they know how the a controlled demolition is done or the tremendous structural loads in a 1300 foot building, but because “Dude! It’s Self Evident”. “DUH… it LOOKS like one of them implosions I done sawd’ on my TV” It’s sold as an attractive proposition, you don’t need to know all that fancy physics stuff, that’s just those egg head science types trying to hold you down, you don’t need to research how events actually transpired, Why bother with all those pesky “facts”, you got YouTube and it’s self evident, the Earth is flat, the Sun revolves around the Earth and 9/11 was an inside job.
The fact is, acting alone, Lee Harvey Oswald shot President Kennedy, Governor Connally, and police officer Tippit in November of 1963, Oswald was a loser in life and did it for his own twisted politics and to boost his ego. On September 11 2001, disciples of a Islamist theocrat Osama bin-Laden crashed hijacked aircraft and themselves along with hundreds of other passengers into the World Trade Center and Pentagon. Why? Because of twisted religious fundamentalism, they believed America to be the great devil. The Jews, CIA, or George Bush did not do it. The Council of Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission are nothing more than a social clubs of otherwise powerful people. The Illuminati are nothing more than the imaginary boogie men of the rationally challenged. The Jewish conspiracy books Protocols of the Elders of Zion are fabrications concocted by bigots.
